Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
TheDuke

Ingame economy.

Recommended Posts

After playing for a while now i noticed theres currently no way for weapons to leave the ingame economy.
So unless im missing something, how are weapons supposed to leave the ingame economy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They aren't, the only way is if someone dies and isn't looted and they despawn. It would be cool to have a feature where you could sell your extra guns for game dollars and spend those on higher tier weapons such as snipers at an extreme price.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dropbombs said:

They aren't, the only way is if someone dies and isn't looted and they despawn. It would be cool to have a feature where you could sell your extra guns for game dollars and spend those on higher tier weapons such as snipers at an extreme price.

Then it seems to me thats an issue. If weapons keep entering the ingame economy, and non leave it, everyone will end up with a GI full of the best available guns. So then whats the point of having rare weaponry? I'm all for having common spawns so people can PvP, but if it stays like this it will only take a month or two, three before noone will care about getting what are now considered rare drops.
Not to mention how many snipers will end up in the game while they're supposed to be a rarity so the game doesn't become a giant sniper fest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah this is something i have thought about aswell. Weapons need a way out of the economy not just in. Think durability is the best way for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, horcrux said:

Yeah this is something i have thought about aswell. Weapons need a way out of the economy not just in. Think durability is the best way for that.

I hate durability in video games.  Plus that would mess up the stacking in your global inventory.  It's already messy enough as is without having dozens of individual and stacks of "partially damaged guns".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AirborneLawnDart said:

I hate durability in video games.  Plus that would mess up the stacking in your global inventory.  It's already messy enough as is without having dozens of individual and stacks of "partially damaged guns".

Well,  in games with a global inventory its very needed for stuff to have a way out of the economy aswell. Just by getting dropped and despawning isnt even close to enough i think. Durability is the best way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has any game ever done a supply and demand type of system? 

They could do something like take metal scrap out of the game from looting and allow guns to be melted into metal scrap. And increase purposeful items that are needed for crafting with metal scrap. Like even make drones and grenades be crafted from metal scrap 

Edited by HaeL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, AirborneLawnDart said:

I hate durability in video games.  Plus that would mess up the stacking in your global inventory.  It's already messy enough as is without having dozens of individual and stacks of "partially damaged guns".

A system where guns take damage when a player dies with it could mitigate the stacking issue.
But i really feel like something has to be done here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TheDuke said:

A system where guns take damage when a player dies with it could mitigate the stacking issue.
But i really feel like something has to be done here.

I'd rather see Guns melted down into scrap metal. (for future craftable items that are needed)

Drone batteries can die, so you could craft batteries too in the future to make drones have durability. Even though you blow them up majority of the time. But you could make the battery life cut in half if someone dies with one of their inventory.

And I'm okay with melee weapons and armor having durability. Just like battle royale games, you could have body armor only count for X amount of shots. Or helmets depleting after saving you from 1 headshot. 

Because a ZSH-V helmet already can save you from 1 headshot with a VSS but not from a L-96. 

So a ZSH-V helmet can save you from 2 AK-47 headshots and it will dissapear and leave you at 2 health. 

 

But I'd try my best to avoid durability on firearms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, HaeL said:

I'd rather see Guns melted down into scrap metal. (for future craftable items that are needed)

Drone batteries can die, so you could craft batteries too in the future to make drones have durability. Even though you blow them up majority of the time. But you could make the battery life cut in half if someone dies with one of their inventory.

And I'm okay with melee weapons and armor having durability. Just like battle royale games, you could have body armor only count for X amount of shots. Or helmets depleting after saving you from 1 headshot. 

Because a ZSH-V helmet already can save you from 1 headshot with a VSS but not from a L-96. 

So a ZSH-V helmet can save you from 2 AK-47 headshots and it will dissapear and leave you at 2 health. 

 

But I'd try my best to avoid durability on firearms. 

If you allow guns to be molten down into scrap people will go for what they get most value out of. Their inventories will still be stacked with the rarest guns while they melt down their lets say AR-15's, or other weapons if their GI is stacked. So this doesn't fix the issue, people will never melt down a VSS, L-96 or AK unless their GI (and everyone elses GI) is full of them. And thats what should be avoided to maximize the feeling of being rewarded when you kill a guy that has one of those on him, it keeps the PvP more interesting.

I think helmets breaking that fast would be very bad and simply annoying. 1-2 shots is way too quickly. Helmets should have to be durable enough to last several PvP's. But a balance has to be struck between the durability and rarity as to make it so not everyone is wearing them all the time whereas other helmets that offer less protection should be common enough for everyone to be able to wear them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, TheDuke said:

If you allow guns to be molten down into scrap people will go for what they get most value out of. Their inventories will still be stacked with the rarest guns while they melt down their lets say AR-15's, or other weapons if their GI is stacked. So this doesn't fix the issue, people will never melt down a VSS, L-96 or AK unless their GI (and everyone elses GI) is full of them. And thats what should be avoided to maximize the feeling of being rewarded when you kill a guy that has one of those on him, it keeps the PvP more interesting.

I think helmets breaking that fast would be very bad and simply annoying. 1-2 shots is way too quickly. Helmets should have to be durable enough to last several PvP's. But a balance has to be struck between the durability and rarity as to make it so not everyone is wearing them all the time whereas other helmets that offer less protection should be common enough for everyone to be able to wear them.

Majority of PVP games, the helmets take a shot or too. Its so you know you almost died, you can bring an extra helmet if that happens but it would make sense in this game too given that headshots is 5x multiplier. Why wouldn't a helmet go away if it hits you for that much damage? 

People won't melt down VSS or L-96 but those are already super rare and the new patch just reduced the spawn rate of them even more. So I think it is fine for the time being. Even on top of the Snipers being rare, having .308 ammo is also rare, so I don't think snipers is too much of a problem with people hoarding them. 

I've got 30 hours in the game so far and I haven't even seen a sniper. Only once that another player had. You could even have people melting down guns to make helmets to compensate for how the helmets save you. 

 

Edited by HaeL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HaeL said:

Majority of PVP games, the helmets take a shot or too. Its so you know you almost died, you can bring an extra helmet if that happens but it would make sense in this game too given that headshots is 5x multiplier. Why wouldn't a helmet go away if it hits you for that much damage? 

People won't melt down VSS or L-96 but those are already super rare and the new patch just reduced the spawn rate of them even more. So I think it is fine for the time being. Even on top of the Snipers being rare, having .308 ammo is also rare, so I don't think snipers is too much of a problem with people hoarding them. 

I've got 30 hours in the game so far and I haven't even seen a sniper. Only once that another player had. You could even have people melting down guns to make helmets to compensate for how the helmets save you. 

 

Lets just agree to disagree about the helmet.

'Fine for the time being' isn't going to cut it. If this game is to last, something has to be done to get guns out of the economy (not at the players choice).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, TheDuke said:

Lets just agree to disagree about the helmet.

'Fine for the time being' isn't going to cut it. If this game is to last, something has to be done to get guns out of the economy (not at the players choice).

I agree, but what I gave as an idea is the only think I can think of that adds some kind of "recycling" that you're asking for. Do you really want to go down the Gun durability route? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, HaeL said:

I agree, but what I gave as an idea is the only think I can think of that adds some kind of "recycling" that you're asking for. Do you really want to go down the Gun durability route? 

As i mentioned before. Thats not an option. We are trying to avoid weapons like the snipers or AK's being the only guns people play with because there would be so many of them going around in the ingame economy. Players will not 'recycle' the best guns in the game unless they have so many of them they are starting to remove them from their GI to make room for meds or something else they deem to have more value than what are currently the rarest guns in the game.
If you let this go on long enough we could end up with a can of beans that has more value than your AK as beans are a consumable item and thus do leave the ingame economy.

Your recycling idea can't work as a replacement to the durability system. Ofcourse if better ideas come up its worth looking at them too. But breaking down your items into scrap isn't one of them. The only other option i can think of myself right now is regular wipes. But I don't think that would be fun at all.

Edited by TheDuke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're really worried about just the snipers and AK then you can make rare guns like that only have the durability.

And have the common guns used for scrap metal. With the uncommon choice of also being able to choose to melt down rare guns.

It would be easy to implement that with snipers. Like snipers have a 70 shot use or something. (Just an example) But if rare guns could be melted. They'd wait till they had 1-3 shots left on it and send it to the scraper to maximize their benefit. Which I don't think would be a problem. 

I also wouldn't mind wipes. I think wipes would need to happen for newer players, but wipes shouldn't be the main way to deal with the economy. Just a refreshing way to reintroduce a new age of economy. So maybe once a year or so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, HaeL said:

If you're really worried about just the snipers and AK then you can make rare guns like that only have the durability.

I'm not specifically worried about about snipers and AK.
What I'm worried about is the 'order of rarity'. Obviously spawnrates are set to a certain number so that one gun is more rare than the other.
I assume the intention is that the spawnrates are reflected in the players GI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheDuke said:

I'm not specifically worried about about snipers and AK.
What I'm worried about is the 'order of rarity'. Obviously spawnrates are set to a certain number so that one gun is more rare than the other.
I assume the intention is that the spawnrates are reflected in the players GI.

No I meant, if you're worried about the  "Rare guns" which is the snipers and AK then you can make those have durability. So people don't slowly hoard rare guns like you said. 

I'm not sure if spawn rates are reflected in the players GI. That would be super weird to me. Because some people might have an AK or Sniper and keep it in their GI waiting for a rainy day and inadvertently reduce the spawn of those items in the real world. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HaeL said:

No I meant, if you're worried about the  "Rare guns" which is the snipers and AK then you can make those have durability. So people don't slowly hoard rare guns like you said. 

I'm not sure if spawn rates are reflected in the players GI. That would be super weird to me. Because some people might have an AK or Sniper and keep it in their GI waiting for a rainy day and inadvertently reduce the spawn of those items in the real world. 

I think the issue would be biggest with rare guns, yes.

What i meant to say was that normally speaking the rarest guns are the ones players should have least of. Unless ofcourse theyr starting to hoard them without using them.
Maybe i shouldve put it differently like the rarer the gun the lower the chance you encounter players using it in pvp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really dislike durability.  Especially in games where you have all of your loot piled into one container.

You're going to have a whole section of guns that won't stack because they have durability.

Loot leaves the economy during PVP.  People don't PVP, bank, PVP, bank.  They PVP until dead.  Not all the loot that drops gets picked up.  If you get squad wiped, you gear back up and go somewhere else, not repeat that battle for hours on end.

How do I know this?  Because I'm watching it happen right now.  With low pop loot nerfed, we win some PVP, lose some PVP, and our inventories are all going down pretty fast.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Albion Online is a great example of an economy where Items retain value due to one simple in game mechanic. On death, items a player holds have a chance to be destroyed. There are a lot more reasons, but this is one simple solution. It is not the best, however it is not only technically feasible, but also a decent way to destroy items over time and leave their value higher.

As AirborneLawnDart said though, not everyone is just banking EVERYTHING they get. You will PvP, and not everything will be looted. Some people stock up on a lot of gear, but some people lose it all over a bunch of PvP fights. Even if you're winning a lot of fights, your ammo and other resources still go down.

Edited by Michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AirborneLawnDart said:

I really dislike durability.  Especially in games where you have all of your loot piled into one container.

You're going to have a whole section of guns that won't stack because they have durability.

Loot leaves the economy during PVP.  People don't PVP, bank, PVP, bank.  They PVP until dead.  Not all the loot that drops gets picked up.  If you get squad wiped, you gear back up and go somewhere else, not repeat that battle for hours on end.

How do I know this?  Because I'm watching it happen right now.  With low pop loot nerfed, we win some PVP, lose some PVP, and our inventories are all going down pretty fast.

If loot loses durability on death it only takes a few UI tweaks for it to look organised. You could for example click the gun you want to take out and when you do a menu shows up showing you the different tiers of durability available in your GI. It would only have to be 5-10 durability levels.

Way more loot would come in than leaves which means the issue remains.

Edited by TheDuke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ammo is a limiting factor for guns of higher rarity. For example, I've never found a sniper and only found 5 rounds of VSS ammo and ~60 of L96, so even if I have a ton of these rare items that never leave, I cant use them. Same with 7.62, I have two aks that I've found/pvped for and ~900 rounds. Eventually that will run out and the supply isn't enough for me to continue to use those weapons. Weapons don't have to degrade, ammo just needs to remain rare to limit use.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Dropbombs said:

The ammo is a limiting factor for guns of higher rarity. For example, I've never found a sniper and only found 5 rounds of VSS ammo and ~60 of L96, so even if I have a ton of these rare items that never leave, I cant use them. Same with 7.62, I have two aks that I've found/pvped for and ~900 rounds. Eventually that will run out and the supply isn't enough for me to continue to use those weapons. Weapons don't have to degrade, ammo just needs to remain rare to limit use.

Thats fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...