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AirborneLawnDart

Please REVERT the low pop loot nerf!

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, AirborneLawnDart said:

Sorry, it's not worth it.  I won't loot for 100 minutes just so I can PVP for 10 minutes.  And if you get killed 90 minutes in to that loot run...........you get zero loot from that low pop run.  The ONLY places to get "some" loot on low pop is Military Base and Airfield now, so that's where ALL the low pop players go.  So your chance to get killed while looting low pop increased exponentially since the low pop loot nerf.

I hope they don't plan on generating a lot of development revenue from private servers with 25% of the normal loot.  They won't even get a fraction of the private server sales that WarZ had.

So when you ask for new features, and they're not getting added because they can't afford more programmers, you'll know why.

This game already has one of the lowest population launches of any survival game I've purchased in several years.  That's going to keep going down if they can't generate revenue, add more features, and increase the player base.

There's no reason they CAN'T do normal loot in low pop servers other than YOU personally don't like it.

You're explaining the risk of getting killed while trying to loot while also explaining that you don't have time to PVP.

You're getting shot at trying to loot. Defend yourself with what you've found (which trials have shown is ample). There is the PVP.

It's not just gearing up and running to the POI.

 

I realize that you won't rent a server (you've mentioned it a few times), but trying to carrot the additional revenue they'll get if you get your way probably won't work. This game started as a passion project and motivated ONE guy to learn to code and model just to launch a game he loves. That doesn't sounds financially driven studio.

 

Sure, revenue keeps the lights on, but that can come from game sales and cosmetics, and they've probably got a good nest egg. I feel like he's giving us the option of private servers for convenience, not as a part of the business model.

 

 

Edited by Kayyhaus

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5 minutes ago, AirborneLawnDart said:

Sorry, it's not worth it.  I won't loot for 100 minutes just so I can PVP for 10 minutes.  And if you get killed 90 minutes in to that loot run...........you get zero loot from that low pop run.  The ONLY places to get "some" loot on low pop is Military Base and Airfield now, so that's where ALL the low pop players go.  So your chance to get killed while looting low pop increased exponentially since the low pop loot nerf.

I hope they don't plan on generating a lot of development revenue from private servers with 25% of the normal loot.  They won't even get a fraction of the private server sales that WarZ had.

So when you ask for new features, and they're not getting added because they can't afford more programmers, you'll know why.

This game already has one of the lowest population launches of any survival game I've purchased in several years.  That's going to keep going down if they can't generate revenue, add more features, and increase the player base.

There's no reason they CAN'T do normal loot in low pop servers other than YOU personally don't like it.

I keep telling you though. The loot amount isn't the enemy here, Its the risk. The PvP is work and so should the looting. Being on an low pop server pressing E for an hour is a lame way to get rich. 

Because 

A) You're forcing yourself to not play with players (in a multiplayer game) and spread the community out.

B) You have just the same amount of right to loot good loot on your own as others players have the right to take it from you.

C). If you allow such a low risk, mundane, action be the cause of good loot. You create a "Gold farming" game. Even to pvp gamers, before the loot nerf, looting was too lame. I bet Joshua started to see twitch streamers (Which I've seen) offer to spend real money buying certain items because it was so easy to loot if you had the time to just stay away from players the whole time. I saw them offering 20-30 bucks for someone to be their farmer because even PvP before the nerf is not beneficial. 

So essentially the nerf was to stop exploiting, which is what low pop farming is IMO. More alternatives will come soon. 

 

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Loot will be changing to 1500 minimum next patch.

  • Thanks 2

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On 6/3/2019 at 4:53 PM, AirborneLawnDart said:

We didn't give a hoot about the base building.  Minecraft has better base building.  Your bases in Epoch were limited to walls, doors, and safes.

We played it for 2 years because the PVP was fun.  It didn't take forever to grind, then go get a "small taste" of PVP.  It was "loot a little" then "go have fun PVPing".

It was the same in WarZ..........the loot to PVP ratio was about 1 to 1.  One hour of looting, one hour of PVP.

You are literally one of the only people complaining about it, and are doing so every 30 minutes

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I see people mentioning WarZ on here and suggesting the issue with that game (why it died) was because there was too much loot.  I'm sorry, but that couldn't be further from the truth.  WarZ had a cheater problem and a corrupt developer, that is why the game died.  In fact, if it wasn't for PvP'ing, loot was often very hard to come by (they were constantly screwing with it).  They wanted to force people to purchase it in the cash shop.  Such a scam that was.  It's too bad, because when you were PvP'ing, the game was fun.  Especially after they implemented Punkbuster for a short time period.

The other 'Survival' games all go by the concept that loot should be hard to find.  DayZ, Scum, Miscreated, it is much more difficult to find good loot in these games.  That is one of the main reasons why nobody is playing them.  It just isn't fun to loot for 3-hours to find a gun and 8 bullets and enough food and water just to survive.  If you like that type of style, well, you have DayZ, Scum, Miscreated, and other games that you can play.  The fact that you aren't (numbers don't lie), just goes to show that it isn't the direction Xera should go.

The reason why Xera was fun right from the start is that it focused on PvP.  Looting was still a requirement, but you could get in, loot for 30 minutes and then spend the next few hours PvP'ing with what you looted.  It removed the corruption of WarZ, and was the complete opposite of the other 'Survival' games when it came to loot levels.

Honestly, I'm not sure why people would be against the higher levels of loot.  If you enjoy looting all day, you can still do that.  In fact, get a private server (once they are available) and turn the loot down to almost nothing.  Then you can loot all day to your hearts are content.  The same isn't true for the people who want to PvP.  We can't PvP all day if the loot doesn't support that ability.  I don't want to run 15 minutes back to the safe zone everytime you kill a player in PvP because the loot is too valuable to lose.

It also doesn't matter to me if my GI fills up either.  As it fills up, you just make adjustments on what is important to keep and what isn't.  You can still loot, but instead of looking for common items, you now try and farm rare items.

I will end by saying this.  People have been complementing the developer on how good this game is (myself included).  That had EVERYTHING to do with how easy it was to loot, and the subsequent PvP experience.  Don't ruin that formula.  If you make looting harder, then you have to spend more time looting instead of enjoying the game.  I have enough tasks to do IRL, I don't want to add another one in the virtual world.

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5 hours ago, Joshua said:

Loot will be changing to 1500 minimum next patch.

Thank you Joshua, I think that is a step in the right direction.

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8 hours ago, HaeL said:

I keep telling you though. The loot amount isn't the enemy here, Its the risk. The PvP is work and so should the looting. Being on an low pop server pressing E for an hour is a lame way to get rich. 

Because 

A) You're forcing yourself to not play with players (in a multiplayer game) and spread the community out.

B) You have just the same amount of right to loot good loot on your own as others players have the right to take it from you.

C). If you allow such a low risk, mundane, action be the cause of good loot. You create a "Gold farming" game. Even to pvp gamers, before the loot nerf, looting was too lame. I bet Joshua started to see twitch streamers (Which I've seen) offer to spend real money buying certain items because it was so easy to loot if you had the time to just stay away from players the whole time. I saw them offering 20-30 bucks for someone to be their farmer because even PvP before the nerf is not beneficial. 

So essentially the nerf was to stop exploiting, which is what low pop farming is IMO. More alternatives will come soon. 

 

This is a fair opinion, I could see some people enjoy the tension of looting in high population servers.  It's not my cup of tea, I prefer the tension of a good PvP fight, but I can understand this perspective.

The problem I have with that though, is that regardless of how bad you make the loot on low population or private servers, people will eventually have a GI full of stuff.  Sure, you could make it so it would take A LOT longer to obtain it, but eventually you get to the same point, a GI full of loot.  That doesn't work well for people who can't play hours every day.  Those of us who enjoy the PvP action, would be forced into playing how you prefer.  If the looting becomes a chore, I'm going to move on to another game (just like everyone did who played Dayz, Scum, and Miscreated).

If loot is plentiful though, it doesn't stop you from going on populated servers (there are plenty of them), and looting that way.  It isn't hard to find full/almost full servers.  When you run into another player, you are at no less of a disadvantage.  Sure, they may have a GI full of loot, but they can only bring so much with them.  So whether you are facing a player with 20 guns in his GI, or one whos only gun is the one he is carrying, you wouldn't know any different.

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I complety agree with OP.

These changes made me actually play less since i can pretty much no longer play solo. Running out of meds and armor... no real way to farm them. Been on airport for 1 hour, 2 medkits, its a joke. I go highpop server, groups of 4 everywhere.

The most afected players by this low loot are the solo players, its already hard enough to play this game solo, fighting teams all day, which i enjoy... but this loot is actually killing it for me.

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10 hours ago, [1S1K]Solo said:

This is a fair opinion, I could see some people enjoy the tension of looting in high population servers.  It's not my cup of tea, I prefer the tension of a good PvP fight, but I can understand this perspective.

The problem I have with that though, is that regardless of how bad you make the loot on low population or private servers, people will eventually have a GI full of stuff.  Sure, you could make it so it would take A LOT longer to obtain it, but eventually you get to the same point, a GI full of loot.  That doesn't work well for people who can't play hours every day.  Those of us who enjoy the PvP action, would be forced into playing how you prefer.  If the looting becomes a chore, I'm going to move on to another game (just like everyone did who played Dayz, Scum, and Miscreated).

If loot is plentiful though, it doesn't stop you from going on populated servers (there are plenty of them), and looting that way.  It isn't hard to find full/almost full servers.  When you run into another player, you are at no less of a disadvantage.  Sure, they may have a GI full of loot, but they can only bring so much with them.  So whether you are facing a player with 20 guns in his GI, or one whos only gun is the one he is carrying, you wouldn't know any different.

Well, like I said, I don't mind a lot of loot in low pop servers. But the loot shouldn't be lying around. You just need to put in some kind of work in order to get the loots. Example: More PvE events or harder robots. 

Although, I like PvP I too, was one of those people that went from lvl 1 to lvl 10 from just PvE at the airport in low pop servers. Even though its a viable strat and a very smart thing to do, I think its very unnatural for the game and goes against the spirit of the game. 

I wouldn't even mind if they put PvE things around the server that others could do in higher pop servers to get even better loot. But PvE "Looters" have to have some kind of risk just like PvPers do. Thats how the economy works. You lose some you gain some. 

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Im all about PVP, but if i run out of... lets say meds, i need a method to farm them back up. Which right now doesn't exist. PVPing with bandages is a terrible idea on a decent level. What's wrong with PVE Looters? im not a pve looter, i met some over the years in warz and infestation, they dont hurt anybody, let them get shiny weapons and never use them, i never undertood them but... never was a problem to me.

Problem comes if i have the morning free to play, no friends are online, i need meds and can't really farm them.

I can go on a lowpop and farm for hours (boring) to pvp for minutes, or i can go highpop against squads of 4 running around, eighter way im not getting the meds i need.

Just saying, since that nerf came and i went through my gear soloing, im playing less, no point in bringing my scars out with no armor on and only bandages to heal. Its stupid.

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16 hours ago, Makav3li said:

Im all about PVP, but if i run out of... lets say meds, i need a method to farm them back up. Which right now doesn't exist. PVPing with bandages is a terrible idea on a decent level. What's wrong with PVE Looters? im not a pve looter, i met some over the years in warz and infestation, they dont hurt anybody, let them get shiny weapons and never use them, i never undertood them but... never was a problem to me.

Problem comes if i have the morning free to play, no friends are online, i need meds and can't really farm them.

I can go on a lowpop and farm for hours (boring) to pvp for minutes, or i can go highpop against squads of 4 running around, eighter way im not getting the meds i need.

Just saying, since that nerf came and i went through my gear soloing, im playing less, no point in bringing my scars out with no armor on and only bandages to heal. Its stupid.

If you want to put this in the game, For Now. I can see the reason because its early access and there needs to be a supply and demand. However, if this needs to be the case, low pop server shouldn't have the loot nerfed, it should have the loot tables changed. 

Making ARs and armor rare but you can still find ammo and bandages etc. for example. The higher the population the more common rare loot becomes. 

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On 6/6/2019 at 9:59 AM, Makav3li said:

Im all about PVP, but if i run out of... lets say meds, i need a method to farm them back up. Which right now doesn't exist. PVPing with bandages is a terrible idea on a decent level. What's wrong with PVE Looters? im not a pve looter, i met some over the years in warz and infestation, they dont hurt anybody, let them get shiny weapons and never use them, i never undertood them but... never was a problem to me.

Problem comes if i have the morning free to play, no friends are online, i need meds and can't really farm them.

I can go on a lowpop and farm for hours (boring) to pvp for minutes, or i can go highpop against squads of 4 running around, eighter way im not getting the meds i need.

Just saying, since that nerf came and i went through my gear soloing, im playing less, no point in bringing my scars out with no armor on and only bandages to heal. Its stupid.

I couldn't agree more!

PVPing is fun.

Looting is boring.

 

Trying to loot in a high pop with lots of people trying to PVP.............means you aren't bringing that loot home.  So eventually you'll be fighting fully geared no life players with pistols and gauze.

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On 6/5/2019 at 11:19 PM, [1S1K]Solo said:

This is a fair opinion, I could see some people enjoy the tension of looting in high population servers.  It's not my cup of tea, I prefer the tension of a good PvP fight, but I can understand this perspective.

The problem I have with that though, is that regardless of how bad you make the loot on low population or private servers, people will eventually have a GI full of stuff.  Sure, you could make it so it would take A LOT longer to obtain it, but eventually you get to the same point, a GI full of loot.  That doesn't work well for people who can't play hours every day.  Those of us who enjoy the PvP action, would be forced into playing how you prefer.  If the looting becomes a chore, I'm going to move on to another game (just like everyone did who played Dayz, Scum, and Miscreated).

If loot is plentiful though, it doesn't stop you from going on populated servers (there are plenty of them), and looting that way.  It isn't hard to find full/almost full servers.  When you run into another player, you are at no less of a disadvantage.  Sure, they may have a GI full of loot, but they can only bring so much with them.  So whether you are facing a player with 20 guns in his GI, or one whos only gun is the one he is carrying, you wouldn't know any different.

I agree.

Before Xera came out I was bored and reinstalled the DayZ Standalone.

After playing for a few hours I had a pistol with a few rounds, and a rifle with a few rounds.  Definitely not enough to PVP.  If I lost that, I'd be back to square one looting for another few hours to "try" the PVP.

PVP is fun.  Looting is boring.  I UNINSTALLED the DayZ Standalone.  Probably for the last time.  I had less than 40 total hours played in the DayZ Standalone.  My friends had probably HALF that time played.

 

In contrast DayZ Epoch Mod had TONS of loot.  After a while you could get to the point where you didn't need to farm loot hardly at all.

What did we do without boring loot chores?  LOTS, and LOTS, and LOTS of PVP.  Sniping PVP, stalking PVP, driving PVP, flying PVP.  It was amazingly fun.

We played DayZ Epoch Mod (and Overpoch) for YEARS.  Even my friends played HUNDREDS of hours.  Why?  Because PVP is fun.  Looting is not fun.

 

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26 minutes ago, AirborneLawnDart said:

I agree.

Before Xera came out I was bored and reinstalled the DayZ Standalone.

After playing for a few hours I had a pistol with a few rounds, and a rifle with a few rounds.  Definitely not enough to PVP.  If I lost that, I'd be back to square one looting for another few hours to "try" the PVP.

PVP is fun.  Looting is boring.  I UNINSTALLED the DayZ Standalone.  Probably for the last time.  I had less than 40 total hours played in the DayZ Standalone.  My friends had probably HALF that time played.

 

In contrast DayZ Epoch Mod had TONS of loot.  After a while you could get to the point where you didn't need to farm loot hardly at all.

What did we do without boring loot chores?  LOTS, and LOTS, and LOTS of PVP.  Sniping PVP, stalking PVP, driving PVP, flying PVP.  It was amazingly fun.

We played DayZ Epoch Mod (and Overpoch) for YEARS.  Even my friends played HUNDREDS of hours.  Why?  Because PVP is fun.  Looting is not fun.

 

You keep referring to players who have good gear as "no lifers", yet you find time to invest hundreds (if not thousands) of hours into multiple games. ;)

Even if that is over the course of a few years, that is quite a bit. Come on, you walked into that one, dude. LOL.

 

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Trust me, Air, my posts haven't been a slight against you, just more of an unstructured opinion opening subjectivity.

Players of your preferred play style (absolutely nothing wrong with it, and not you directly) never seem to be satisfied in the long run. As more items are introduced to the loot table, variable chance is reduced, meaning less of a chance of a particular item, and more of another.

That is the case with static spawns which may share types such as ammo, meds, etc. 

So when 4 or 5 new guns are added, and a few more random items, the running average is potentially reduced. 

My point being, Josh adjusted the minimum to 1500 items, which will apply to the low pop and private servers, but eventually when you're not getting the items that the high pop players are looting, you're going to insist it be raised to keep up with what they may have. That will continue to compound. Loot numbers need to be a set point, not a dynamic variable of quantity that is exponentially increased anytime a variable is introduced. You often mention that looting is boring, and you prefer a ratio of ~10 minutes of looting to an hour of PVP, this indicates what I just mentioned. That isn't a sustainable play-style unless you have NewZ loot quantities. So it illustrates that you're not really going to be happy until that threshold is breached.

Again, Air, I completely value your opinion. I believe that we need to hear opinions and play styles of all kinds of players and based on that, find a proper balance. An echo chamber really doesn't contribute to longevity. Even if I disagree with your position, i will always respect it and be receptive.

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On 6/5/2019 at 5:15 PM, Joshua said:

Loot will be changing to 1500 minimum next patch.

Moving in the right direction....lol  :)

Think of it this way:

Normal Loot = Lots of private server rentals (Maximum $$)

3/4 Loot = Some private server rentals

1/2 Loot = Few private server rentals

1/4 Loot = Almost no private server rentals (Minimum $$)

 

I want you guys to succeed :)

I want you guys to get PAID!  :)

$20 is a bit too cheap for a game this good.  <---------But if your thinking is "low price to get more players" that's a valid strategy.

Give us a reason to spend more $$ and get you those server rental fees!  Take my money!!!!!!

 

Everyone and their brother had Private Servers in WarZ.  Why?  Take the hassle out of farming.  More time for PVP.

For the people that liked public servers............on a normal night there were 4-7 servers completely MAXED out at 100 players each (US Region).

More PVP, More Fun, More Players, More $$!

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