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Purekash01

Leveling and skills

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I see a lot of people suggesting huge fixes and stuff like that without taking into consideration that the people who made this game is a small group. This isn't Escape from Tarkov where they pop out a new gun and model in an hour. Unfortunately, the player base is dropping everyday. Last I checked it was 40 people on. Doing some small fixes and changes brings back new life, and maybe not charging so much. (Personal opinion)

Leveling is slow and boring. You have a crafting system that revolves around this leveling system and it's not impressive. Ditch the to make a drone you need to be level 7. Make it so people can craft anything and everything from whatever level. If I find this stuff, I want to make it. What should happen is when you level you get a skill point. Implement the 4 skills. Strength, Stamina, Agility, and Endurance.

Strength: Each point gives you X amount of health and X amount of carry capacity

Stamina: Remove the ability  to sprint forever. Stamina now increases how long you can run and and food/water increases stamina recharge.

Agility: Increases how fast you can run and melee attack speed increase.

Endurance: Implement the ability to bleed or lacerate. No broken bones. Endurance lets you take less damage and a less chance of bleeding. (if you can't implement bleeding then go with recoil control and more exp gains)

 TL:DR Add skill points and skills to give players something that isn't just another looter shooter.

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Thanks for your feedback.  A skill tree is on the roadmap for in the future and I agree it would be great to start working on it sooner than later.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Purekash01 said:

I see a lot of people suggesting huge fixes and stuff like that without taking into consideration that the people who made this game is a small group. This isn't Escape from Tarkov where they pop out a new gun and model in an hour. Unfortunately, the player base is dropping everyday. Last I checked it was 40 people on. Doing some small fixes and changes brings back new life, and maybe not charging so much. (Personal opinion)

Leveling is slow and boring. You have a crafting system that revolves around this leveling system and it's not impressive. Ditch the to make a drone you need to be level 7. Make it so people can craft anything and everything from whatever level. If I find this stuff, I want to make it. What should happen is when you level you get a skill point. Implement the 4 skills. Strength, Stamina, Agility, and Endurance.

Strength: Each point gives you X amount of health and X amount of carry capacity

Stamina: Remove the ability  to sprint forever. Stamina now increases how long you can run and and food/water increases stamina recharge.

Agility: Increases how fast you can run and melee attack speed increase.

Endurance: Implement the ability to bleed or lacerate. No broken bones. Endurance lets you take less damage and a less chance of bleeding. (if you can't implement bleeding then go with recoil control and more exp gains)

 TL:DR Add skill points and skills to give players something that isn't just another looter shooter.

This puts the focuss on PVE and creates an even greater barrier for entry for the new player. They would join a game where everyone in their party can run longer and faster than them and the people he fights tank more than he can simply because they have been playing for longer. He might be losing gunfights to worse players simply because hes new and to me thats unacceptable.
Also, other looter shooters have had this system, the most recent example being Sergey's new disaster New Frontier. So to say that a skill tree would set this game apart from others in the genre is simply not true.

Edited by TheDuke

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On 7/26/2019 at 11:50 AM, TheDuke said:

This puts the focuss on PVE and creates an even greater barrier for entry for the new player. They would join a game where everyone in their party can run longer and faster than them and the people he fights tank more than he can simply because they have been playing for longer. He might be losing gunfights to worse players simply because hes new and to me thats unacceptable.
Also, other looter shooters have had this system, the most recent example being Sergey's new disaster New Frontier. So to say that a skill tree would set this game apart from others in the genre is simply not true.

Your statements are somewhat true and I guess I am taking examples from Escape from Tarkov. Borderlands, Warframe, Risk of rain 2  mostly. These are all looter shooters. And yeah in EFT I have fought people way above my level where they they are extremely geared, I either die the most glorious death in 0.05 seconds or live long enough to escape. As for the statement of losing to worse players, those players built their character that way cause they suck and need to improve, the new person and build a way to counter it. It's all about adapting and overcoming obstacles. But if it's just going to be another looter shooter what is keeping me playing? Escape from tarkov has everything except a good connection.

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On 7/29/2019 at 7:57 PM, Purekash01 said:

Your statements are somewhat true and I guess I am taking examples from Escape from Tarkov. Borderlands, Warframe, Risk of rain 2  mostly. These are all looter shooters. And yeah in EFT I have fought people way above my level where they they are extremely geared, I either die the most glorious death in 0.05 seconds or live long enough to escape. As for the statement of losing to worse players, those players built their character that way cause they suck and need to improve, the new person and build a way to counter it. It's all about adapting and overcoming obstacles. But if it's just going to be another looter shooter what is keeping me playing? Escape from tarkov has everything except a good connection.

The game needs to excel in other areas, thats what should keep you playing.
I just don't think the game needs a talent tree that offers advantages in PvP. It should be built around skill, not time invested.
But as proven just now, opinions vary. And thats fine.
Personally i just wouldnt be interested in a game that gives people an advantage for simply investing more time.

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15 minutes ago, TheDuke said:

The game needs to excel in other areas, thats what should keep you playing.
I just don't think the game needs a talent tree that offers advantages in PvP. It should be built around skill, not time invested.
But as proven just now, opinions vary. And thats fine.
Personally i just wouldnt be interested in a game that gives people an advantage for simply investing more time.

How do you get better at a game without investing time into it? I work, people work, I can't invest a lot of time into a game. I would like to level up and gain a perk so when I get rolled up on by a squad I won't immediately die. Or have the ability to customize my character to favor melee instead of guns so I can run up on someone, spook them, and smash their helmets in. Escape from tarkov does that but I am not spending 2 weeks leveling strength because I work.

Now they could make some servers with Talents and Talentless so both sides of this argument wins.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Purekash01 said:

How do you get better at a game without investing time into it? I work, people work, I can't invest a lot of time into a game. I would like to level up and gain a perk so when I get rolled up on by a squad I won't immediately die. Or have the ability to customize my character to favor melee instead of guns so I can run up on someone, spook them, and smash their helmets in. Escape from tarkov does that but I am not spending 2 weeks leveling strength because I work.

Now they could make some servers with Talents and Talentless so both sides of this argument wins.

Some people learn slower than others, games have a skill ceiling, some people are naturally better at shooters while some might be even better at 3th person shooters. You cannot argue that right of the bat theres people who are far better and learn the game far faster than others at almost any game.
To give a popular example CS has people whom have 3 thousand hours clocked and are still in the mg ranks while theres people with 500 hours who are global and faceit level 10.

Any squad that would roll up on you would have had the ability to chose from the same skills as you would. Seeing the nature of the game i think its fair to assume most people would chose PvP perks. In the end whomever invested more time will get the upper hand.

Edited by TheDuke

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3 hours ago, TheDuke said:

Some people learn slower than others, games have a skill ceiling, some people are naturally better at shooters while some might be even better at 3th person shooters. You cannot argue that right of the bat theres people who are far better and learn the game far faster than others at almost any game.
To give a popular example CS has people whom have 3 thousand hours clocked and are still in the mg ranks while theres people with 500 hours who are global and faceit level 10.

Any squad that would roll up on you would have had the ability to chose from the same skills as you would. Seeing the nature of the game i think its fair to assume most people would chose PvP perks. In the end whomever invested more time will get the upper hand.

 

I don't think you are fully understanding what I am saying. CS;GO is a competitive game with real life money involved. Xera isn't. Same with dota and everything else. You put a ton of money into something and make it a 1 v 1 and people will spend years practicing to win. Xera isn't that. That is why I am suggesting a talents system in place instead of a crafting system.

I also think you mean I want them to put in skills like division. No. I want talents so I can customize my character to either run faster or hit harder. It would bring a new dynamic to the game. Is this guy a speedy boy or bullet sponge. And I know what you are thinking, well everyone is going to pick bullet sponge. Not if they include bleeding and lacerations like rust. You get shot 5 times and your bleeding for -25hp every 2 seconds. You gonna have to heal at some point, and with my speedy boy I'll be right there waiting for that moment.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Purekash01 said:

 

I don't think you are fully understanding what I am saying. CS;GO is a competitive game with real life money involved. Xera isn't. Same with dota and everything else. You put a ton of money into something and make it a 1 v 1 and people will spend years practicing to win. Xera isn't that. That is why I am suggesting a talents system in place instead of a crafting system.

I also think you mean I want them to put in skills like division. No. I want talents so I can customize my character to either run faster or hit harder. It would bring a new dynamic to the game. Is this guy a speedy boy or bullet sponge. And I know what you are thinking, well everyone is going to pick bullet sponge. Not if they include bleeding and lacerations like rust. You get shot 5 times and your bleeding for -25hp every 2 seconds. You gonna have to heal at some point, and with my speedy boy I'll be right there waiting for that moment.

 

Yes CS:GO is a competetive game with real life money involved for pro play or even just wagers between two people. But most people with a competetive mindset do not play with the goal of making money, they just want to be better than other players. Its what gives them that dopamine hit. It certainly does for me.

All I'm saying is i want to avoid character progression in any way shape or form that benefits long time players in PvP. PVE is a different story.
Also if one player is a 'speedy boy', the other a bullet sponge and one guy has the ability to rapidly heal were just playing a game of rock paper scissors for whomever gets the upper hand in the PvP. As that would essentially be the product of properly balancing such a system where every choice of 'talents' will make your character excel in a different area of the game. Ie its always a diceroll for who gets the upper hand depending on what talents the other player chose, or am i seeing that the wrong way?

Edited by TheDuke

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On 7/31/2019 at 7:36 AM, TheDuke said:

Yes CS:GO is a competetive game with real life money involved for pro play or even just wagers between two people. But most people with a competetive mindset do not play with the goal of making money, they just want to be better than other players. Its what gives them that dopamine hit. It certainly does for me.

All I'm saying is i want to avoid character progression in any way shape or form that benefits long time players in PvP. PVE is a different story.
Also if one player is a 'speedy boy', the other a bullet sponge and one guy has the ability to rapidly heal were just playing a game of rock paper scissors for whomever gets the upper hand in the PvP. As that would essentially be the product of properly balancing such a system where every choice of 'talents' will make your character excel in a different area of the game. Ie its always a diceroll for who gets the upper hand depending on what talents the other player chose, or am i seeing that the wrong way?

 

You're seeing everything the wrong way. So I will just lay it out and hopefully I won't get banned for it. Rust is better. It's just like this game except you can build and craft. What does this game offer that Rust doesn't? What about PubG? PubG Just has a shrinking area. This game is like every other looter shooter and that is what you want. Bland. no color or uniqueness. Even when they roll out the "SEASONS' and "CURRENCY" it wouldn't bring back a lot of players. Not unless it's packaged with a 90% off.

Players who devote a lot of hours to a certain game deserve to be rewarded. But I never said that in the first place. I said Leveling. People can camp and farm a few spots and level up pretty quickly. I think I am level 7 and only spent a few hours playing, but there is nothing to keep me playing because it's bland and boring that's why there is only 1 person playing it and at most 12 per day.

Enough about that though, what would be your greatest breakthrough to get people to come back and play?

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2019 at 8:49 AM, Purekash01 said:

 

You're seeing everything the wrong way. So I will just lay it out and hopefully I won't get banned for it. Rust is better. It's just like this game except you can build and craft. What does this game offer that Rust doesn't? What about PubG? PubG Just has a shrinking area. This game is like every other looter shooter and that is what you want. Bland. no color or uniqueness. Even when they roll out the "SEASONS' and "CURRENCY" it wouldn't bring back a lot of players. Not unless it's packaged with a 90% off.

Players who devote a lot of hours to a certain game deserve to be rewarded. But I never said that in the first place. I said Leveling. People can camp and farm a few spots and level up pretty quickly. I think I am level 7 and only spent a few hours playing, but there is nothing to keep me playing because it's bland and boring that's why there is only 1 person playing it and at most 12 per day.

Enough about that though, what would be your greatest breakthrough to get people to come back and play?

 

I think I am fully understanding of what you're trying to say.
Yet personally, in all brutal honesty, I would take Shattered Skies or Aftermath over Xera any day. And what sets those games apart?
By your logic nothing much. But I'd say nothing more than personal preference. The fact that this is so subjective is key. Different people are drawn to different 'types' of games. It is true that when the market is saturated games have a far harder time to break through. But lets be honest, the full loot drop looter shooter genre isn't an 'overly saturated' market by any means.
This and NewZ are literally the only games of their kind on the market right now. They do have things in common with rust, they do. But they're not the same at all.
Following your way of thinking this game would be guarantied to improve if some form of advanced base building is implemented. And i tend to disagree. I tihnk this game doesn't need that at all.
Also, PUBG is really nothing like this. I for one hate pubg. And comparing Rust to Xera is like comparing the COD franchise to the Battlefield games. Some people gravitate towards cod, some battlefield. Its not because both games allow you to grab or craft a gun and shoot it they're the same thing.

As you say, you suggest a leveling system. But from a leveling system automatically flows that more time invested equals a 'better'. Thats fundemental to a leveling system.
As i mentioned before I am only opposed to a skill tree (or anything, really) that makes you stronger in PvP. I have no problem with a skill tree that improves you in the PVE area of the game. But thats not what you were suggesting. You were very clearly suggesting PvP related improvements to your character.

Its also true that you can camp a spot and level up quickly. That is part of the issue. Farming up would feel mandatory, some people just don't like farming. Obviously there could be other ways of gaining XP implemented. But whatever happens those who invest more time (specifically in the PVE aspect of the game), will have more gain and end up with a stronger character. And i think thats bad, i don't like that. But as i said, we can agree to disagree on that. Not everyone likes the same things.

Despite all the effort this team is making I am not sure there is a way to fill this game with players again.
The best thing now would be to finish their roadmap and hope for the best upon full release.
Theres other things i would change like how the PvP works right now.
Personally: 

- Being the passive player gives you a massive advantage atm => aggressive play is punished.

- the gunplay is not really satisfying to me

- the character movement is not satisfying in looks and feel. The idea of giving you this 'arcady' kind of freedom in your movement is good. But for some reason it puts me off. I feel like its hard to place what the reason for that is. Might be the animations. I did for example love the movement shattered skies had upon release.

- The whole 'humanoid' thing is not really something i like. I think if we are going with blood crazed robots they don't necesserily have to be 'humanoids'. I am no creative mastermind by any means but im sure theres many different things that can be done with a robot uprising in terms of PVE. Limiting yourself to a human looking robot and then a slightly stronger human looking robot seems like a waste of possibility in an 'AI uprising'.

-guns have no way of leaving the ingame economy (as of last i checked) making it so rare things stop being rare after time has passed

-the events didn't feel very satisfying. Our group did them only because they were a PvP hotspot, but then again we felt like the PvP wasn't that great as whomever pushes the other squad puts themself at a massive advantage. This was later worked on by expanding the compounds. But all that really happened was the compound got bigger, still surrounded by a vast open area. It did improve the PvP inside the compound by a lot though.

etc.

Theres no one 'idea' that will save this game. It seems like a lot of things have to be improved on, new things implemented and if not for full release im pretty sure at this point the stars would have to align. Its sad because this seemed to me to be a really good team that really put the community first.

Edited by TheDuke

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